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In-reply-to » … and now I just read @bender’s other post that said the Gemini text was a shortened version, so I might have criticized things that weren’t true for the full version. Okay, sorry, I’m out. (And I won’t play that game, either. Don’t send me another AI output, possibly tweaked to address my criticism. That is besides the point and not worth my time.)

@bender@twtxt.net All good. āœŒļø It’s just that I’ve been through several iterations of this (on other platforms), AI output back and forth, pointing out what’s wrong, but in the end people were just trolling (not saying that’s what you had in mind), because apparently that’s ā€œfunā€.

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In-reply-to » @bender Thanks for this illustration, it completely ā€œmisunderstoodā€ everything I wrote and confidently spat out garbage. šŸ‘Œ

… and now I just read @bender@twtxt.net’s other post that said the Gemini text was a shortened version, so I might have criticized things that weren’t true for the full version. Okay, sorry, I’m out. (And I won’t play that game, either. Don’t send me another AI output, possibly tweaked to address my criticism. That is besides the point and not worth my time.)

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In-reply-to » @bender Thanks for this illustration, it completely ā€œmisunderstoodā€ everything I wrote and confidently spat out garbage. šŸ‘Œ

@prologic@twtxt.net Let’s go through it one by one. Here’s a wall of text that took me over 1.5 hours to write.

The criticism of AI as untrustworthy is a problem of misapplication, not capability.

This section says AI should not be treated as an authority. This is actually just what I said, except the AI phrased/framed it like it was a counter-argument.

The AI also said that users must develop ā€œAI literacyā€, again phrasing/framing it like a counter-argument. Well, that is also just what I said. I said you should treat AI output like a random blog and you should verify the sources, yadda yadda. That is ā€œAI literacyā€, isn’t it?

My text went one step further, though: I said that when you take this requirement of ā€œAI literacyā€ into account, you basically end up with a fancy search engine, with extra overhead that costs time. The AI missed/ignored this in its reply.

Okay, so, the AI also said that you should use AI tools just for drafting and brainstorming. Granted, a very rough draft of something will probably be doable. But then you have to diligently verify every little detail of this draft – okay, fine, a draft is a draft, it’s fine if it contains errors. The thing is, though, that you really must do this verification. And I claim that many people will not do it, because AI outputs look sooooo convincing, they don’t feel like a draft that needs editing.

Can you, as an expert, still use an AI draft as a basis/foundation? Yeah, probably. But here’s the kicker: You did not create that draft. You were not involved in the ā€œthought processā€ behind it. When you, a human being, make a draft, you often think something like: ā€œOkay, I want to draw a picture of a landscape and there’s going to be a little house, but for now, I’ll just put in a rough sketch of the house and add the details later.ā€ You are aware of what you left out. When the AI did the draft, you are not aware of what’s missing – even more so when every AI output already looks like a final product. For me, personally, this makes it much harder and slower to verify such a draft, and I mentioned this in my text.

Skill Erosion vs. Skill Evolution

You, @prologic@twtxt.net, also mentioned this in your car tyre example.

In my text, I gave two analogies: The gym analogy and the Google Translate analogy. Your car tyre example falls in the same category, but Gemini’s calculator example is different (and, again, gaslight-y, see below).

What I meant in my text: A person wants to be a programmer. To me, a programmer is a person who writes code, understands code, maintains code, writes documentation, and so on. In your example, a person who changes a car tyre would be a mechanic. Now, if you use AI to write the code and documentation for you, are you still a programmer? If you have no understanding of said code, are you a programmer? A person who does not know how to change a car tyre, is that still a mechanic?

No, you’re something else. You should not be hired as a programmer or a mechanic.

Yes, that is ā€œskill evolutionā€ – which is pretty much my point! But the AI framed it like a counter-argument. It didn’t understand my text.

(But what if that’s our future? What if all programming will look like that in some years? I claim: It’s not possible. If you don’t know how to program, then you don’t know how to read/understand code written by an AI. You are something else, but you’re not a programmer. It might be valid to be something else – but that wasn’t my point, my point was that you’re not a bloody programmer.)

Gemini’s calculator example is garbage, I think. Crunching numbers and doing mathematics (i.e., ā€œcomplex problem-solvingā€) are two different things. Just because you now have a calculator, doesn’t mean it’ll free you up to do mathematical proofs or whatever.

What would have worked is this: Let’s say you’re an accountant and you sum up spendings. Without a calculator, this takes a lot of time and is error prone. But when you have one, you can work faster. But once again, there’s a little gaslight-y detail: A calculator is correct. Yes, it could have ā€œbugsā€ (hello Intel FDIV), but its design actually properly calculates numbers. AI, on the other hand, does not understand a thing (our current AI, that is), it’s just a statistical model. So, this modified example (ā€œaccountant with a calculatorā€) would actually have to be phrased like this: Suppose there’s an accountant and you give her a magic box that spits out the correct result in, what, I don’t know, 70-90% of the time. The accountant couldn’t rely on this box now, could she? She’d either have to double-check everything or accept possibly wrong results. And that is how I feel like when I work with AI tools.

Gemini has no idea that its calculator example doesn’t make sense. It just spits out some generic ā€œargumentā€ that it picked up on some website.

3. The Technical and Legal Perspective (Scraping and Copyright)

The AI makes two points here. The first one, I might actually agree with (ā€œbad bot behavior is not the fault of AI itselfā€).

The second point is, once again, gaslighting, because it is phrased/framed like a counter-argument. It implies that I said something which I didn’t. Like the AI, I said that you would have to adjust the copyright law! At the same time, the AI answer didn’t even question whether it’s okay to break the current law or not. It just said ā€œlol yeah, change the lawsā€. (I wonder in what way the laws would have to be changed in the AI’s ā€œopinionā€, because some of these changes could kill some business opportunities – or the laws would have to have special AI clauses that only benefit the AI techbros. But I digress, that wasn’t part of Gemini’s answer.)

tl;dr

Except for one point, I don’t accept any of Gemini’s ā€œcriticismā€. It didn’t pick up on lots of details, ignored arguments, and I can just instinctively tell that this thing does not understand anything it wrote (which is correct, it’s just a statistical model).

And it framed everything like a counter-argument, while actually repeating what I said. That’s gaslighting: When Alice says ā€œthe sky is blueā€ and Bob replies with ā€œwhy do you say the sky is purple?!ā€

But it sure looks convincing, doesn’t it?

Never again

This took so much of my time. I won’t do this again. šŸ˜‚

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In-reply-to » Bavaria is moving to the Microsoft cloud: The state government intends to conclude a contract with the US corporation by the end of the year for the use of the cloud office package Microsoft 365.

@bender@twtxt.net It’s sad. Remember that Munich once ran the LiMux project. šŸ˜ž

We could build a strong IT sector in Germany or the EU, but we just don’t want to.

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In-reply-to » Grrrrr…eat, one of my Bessey spring clamps broke. Ripped the arm right in half. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just designed in Germany but actually made out of Chinesium. :-( I will attempt to glue it back together with two component adhesive tomorrow, but I don't have high hopes.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org … sounds like a bad day. šŸ˜…

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In-reply-to » It happened.

@prologic@twtxt.net Nothing, yet. It was sent in written form. There’s probably little point in fighting this, they have made up their minds already (and AI is being rolled up en masse in other departments), but on the other hand, there are – truthfully – very few areas where AI could actually be useful to me.

There are going to be many discussions about this …

This is completely against the ā€œspiritā€ of this company, btw. We used to say: ā€œIt’s the goal that matters. Use whatever tools you think are appropriate.ā€ That’s why I’m allowed to use Linux on my laptop. Maybe they will back down eventually when they realize that trying to push this on people is pointless. Maybe not.

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Java’s Swing is allegedly in ā€œmaintenance modeā€, so I doubt it’s a good idea to use it for new programs. For example, I very much doubt that it will ever support Wayland.

The replacement is supposed to be JavaFX, but that’s not included in JREs – anymore! It used to be, now it’s not, even though it’s well over 15 years old now.

This whole thing (ā€œJava GUIsā€) appears to have stagnated a lot. Probably because everything is web stuff these days …

https://www.oracle.com/java/technologies/javafx/faq-javafx.html#6

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@arne@uplegger.eu MeckPomm erscheint mir immer wie ein großartiges Bundesland, in dem ich gerne Leben würde. Kleines HƤuschen auf dem Land mit Hühnerstall. Ginge aber – was auch diese Umfrage da impliziert – vermutlich nur, wenn ich meinen derzeitigen Job behalten und full-remote weitermachen würde, damit genug Geld fließt? šŸ¤”

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In-reply-to » And maybe I should go back to using GUI designers. Haven’t used those since the Visual Basic days. šŸ¤” It wasn’t pretty, but you got results very quickly and efficiently.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org

The one for Delphi was quite good.

It was! I didn’t use Delphi for long, though. Dunno why, I always gravitated towards Visual Basic back then. šŸ˜…

These days I don’t deal with GUI programming anymore.

I also avoid it when possible, because … it’s exhausting, because … the tools that I have/know are ā€œsubparā€. Doing anything regarding GUIs always feels like a chore. That wasn’t the case in the VB days.

Well, I made this in ~2009 with Java/Swing and it was pretty nice to work with, custom widgets and all:

https://movq.de/v/de26d5edb3/s.png

I wouldn’t dare doing this with GTK.

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And maybe I should go back to using GUI designers. Haven’t used those since the Visual Basic days. šŸ¤” It wasn’t pretty, but you got results very quickly and efficiently.

(When I switched to Linux, I quickly got stuck with GTK and that only had Glade, which wasn’t super great at the time, so I didn’t start using it … and then I never questioned that decision …)

https://movq.de/v/eaa24b109b/vb.png

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There are no really good GUI toolkits for Linux, are there?

They’re either slow (like GTK4, Qt6), don’t support Wayland (like Tk), and/or unmaintained (like GTK2 and many others).

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In-reply-to » A mate just sent me Microsoft's magnificent master piece diagram regarding the end of life of Windows 10: https://support.microsoft.com/de-de/windows/windows-10-support-wurde-am-14-oktober-2025-eingestellt-2ca8b313-1946-43d3-b55c-2b95b107f281

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org They’re seriously telling us at work: ā€œCan it be AI’d? Do it, don’t waste time!ā€ Shit like that is the result. (What’s this weird gray triangle in the bottom right corner?)

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In-reply-to » You just gotta love products with articial weights in them, because they would ā€œfeel cheapā€ otherwise.

Just FTR, in case this wasn’t obvious, the ā€œright to repairā€ (if there ever is one) needs to be more than just ā€œyou’re legally allowed to repair stuffā€.

I just fixed this thing by replacing two capacitors. Great, but this was an absolute shitshow and it took several days. So many obstacles, everything’s tiny, connectors glued together, … It worked in the end, but I was so close to giving up.

Being legally allowed to do something is basically worthless if it’s not feasible to actually do it.

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In-reply-to » Hmmm 🧐 I'm annectodaly not convinced so-called "AI"(s) really save timeā„¢. -- I have no proof though, I would need to do some concrete studies / numbers... -- But, there is one benefit... It can save you from typing and from worsening RSI / Carpal Tunnel.

@prologic@twtxt.net Ah, I see. Yeah, you might be right. (Still a fragile process due to the general AI wonkiness, but it can help to some degree, yes.)

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In-reply-to » Hmmm 🧐 I'm annectodaly not convinced so-called "AI"(s) really save timeā„¢. -- I have no proof though, I would need to do some concrete studies / numbers... -- But, there is one benefit... It can save you from typing and from worsening RSI / Carpal Tunnel.

@prologic@twtxt.net Yes, although I have a feeling that speech recognition or other means of entering text could be better and much less computationally intensive. šŸ¤”

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In-reply-to » You just gotta love products with articial weights in them, because they would ā€œfeel cheapā€ otherwise.

Fuck me sideways, trying to repair stuff that isn’t meant to be repaired is such a pain. So many pointless obstacles.

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Der ganze Vorgang ist archetypisch für die seit Jahrzehnten völlig ohne Not stattfindende politische Selbstverzwergung Europas.

A comment on heise about the recent AWS outage.

https://www.heise.de/meinung/Kommentar-zum-Totalausfall-bei-AWS-Nichts-gelernt-in-den-letzten-30-Jahren-10794622.html?wt_mc=sm.red.ho.mastodon.mastodon.md_beitraege.md_beitraege&utm_source=mastodon

(Too bad there’s no good translation for the great word ā€œSelbstverzwergungā€.)

I’m paraphrasing: Europe (and other regions) depend on US IT services, a lot, without an actual need. We saw AWS, Google, and Microsoft build large datacenters and then we thought ā€œwelp, shit, nothing we can do about that, guess we’ll just be an AWS customer from now on.ā€ Nobody really went ahead and built German/European alternatives. And now we completely depend on the US for lots of our stuff.

The article even claims that there’s now a shortage of sysadmins in the EU? I’m not so sure. But I’d welcome it, makes my job more secure. 🤣

Hosting services, datacenters, software, everything, it’s all US stuff. Why do we accept this, why not build alternatives …

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In-reply-to » That was a very non-fun day at work.

@prologic@twtxt.net

Are we some of the only people in the world that realize how fucking dumb all this Internet-connect shitā„¢ really is?

Yeah, but don’t ask me why that is. I’ve never gotten a satisfying answer when I talk to people who hype this kind of stuff. (I mean just normal tech people, not CEOs or something.) They just shrug it off and/or think that my concerns are paranoid. šŸ¤”

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In-reply-to » You just gotta love products with articial weights in them, because they would ā€œfeel cheapā€ otherwise.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Hm, that might actually be (partially) true. Some external CD drives (without such a weight) start to spin/wiggle when the drive spins up and down … Although I guess that’s not really the case for Audio CDs as they are run at a fixed low RPM value, I think. šŸ¤”

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In-reply-to » That was a very non-fun day at work.

@prologic@twtxt.net That sounds horrible. šŸ˜… I wouldn’t want to own such a car. (My plan is not to buy a new car after my current one finally broke down entirely.)

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org First time I heard about eCall. I don’t think I like this. 🫤 Feels like another attempt at going for complete surveillance. Yes, yes, it’s about ā€œsecurityā€/ā€œsafetyā€ … it always is.

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Advent of Code will be different this year:

https://old.reddit.com/r/adventofcode/comments/1ocwh04/changes_to_advent_of_code_starting_this_december/

There will only be 12 puzzles, i.e. only December 1 to December 12. This might make it more interesting for some people, because it’s (probably) less work and a lower chance of people getting burned out. šŸ¤”

Personally, I’ll probably stretch it out over 24 days. Giving myself more time to solve each puzzle and I really want this event to last the entire month. šŸ˜…

Maybe this makes it more interesting for some people around here as well?

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