@sorenpeter@darch.dk I like this idea. Just for fun, I’m using a variant in this twt. (Also because I’m curious how it non-hash subjects appear in jenny and yarn.)

URLs can contain commas so I suggest a different character to separate the url from the date. Is this twt I’ve used space (also after “replyto”, for symmetry).

I think this solves:

• Changing feed identities: although @mckinley@twtxt.net points out URLs can change, I think this syntax should be okay as long as the feed at that URL can be fetched, and as long as the current canonical URL for the feed lists this one as an alternate.
  
• editing, if you don’t care about message integrity
  
• finding the root of a thread, if you’re not following the author
  

An optional hash could be added if message integrity is desired. (E.g. if you don’t trust the feed author not to make a misleading edit.) Other recent suggestions about how to deal with edits and hashes might be applicable then.

People publishing multiple twts per second should include sub-second precision in their timestamps. As you suggested, the timestamp could just be copied verbatim.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I didn’t run the command as you recommended, but, I wiped things once more, and ran jenny -f, and this time got:

david@arrakis:~$ jenny -f
Fetching archived feed https://anthony.buc.ci/user/abucci/twtxt.txt/1 (configured as abucci, https://anthony.buc.ci/user/abucci/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2024-04.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://darch.dk/twtxt-archive.txt (configured as soren, https://darch.dk/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2024-04-21_6v47cua.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/1 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2024-03.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2022-12-21_2us6qbq.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/2 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2024-02.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2022-01-14_ew5gzca.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/3 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2024-01.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-12-23_f6y65bq.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/4 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-12.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-12-04_e4x7yba.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/5 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-11.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-11-18_42tjxba.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/6 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-10.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-11-08_i2wnvaa.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-09.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-10-23_kvwn5oa.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-08.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-10-11_mljudaa.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-07.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-09-22_5mkqwua.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-06.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-07-27_xcnzmlq.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-05.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-06-16_mtedqya.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-04.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-04-29_z7lvzja.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-03.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-03-19_xjabvhq.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-02.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-02-24_te4a6oa.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-01.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-01-26_qxgigma.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-12.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2020-12-13_igfnala.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-11.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-10.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-09.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-08.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-07.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-06.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-05.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-04.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-03.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-02.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-01.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-12.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-11.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-10.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-09.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-08.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-07.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-06.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-05.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-04.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-03.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-02.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-01.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2020-12.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)

Notice that @prologic@twtxt.net’s /6 is there. I found the twtxt then. Kind of odd it didn’t show before.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I did the same. jenny fetches archives, yes, but that twtxt I am referring about is no longer. If you fetch it, but I don’t, there is certainly something going on…

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I figured it will be something like this, yet, you were able to reply just fine, and I wasn’t. Looking at your twtxt.txt I see this line:

2024-09-16T17:37:14+00:00	(#o6dsrga) @<prologic https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt>

@<quark https://ferengi.one/twtxt.txt> This is what I get. 🤔

Which is using the right hash. Mine, on the other hand, when I replied to the original, old style message (Message-Id: <o6dsrga>), looks like this:

2024-09-16T16:42:27+00:00	(#o) @<prologic https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt> this was your first twtxt. Cool! :-P

What did you do to make yours work? I simply went to the oldest @prologic@twtxt.net’s entry on my Maildir, and replied to it (jenny set the reply-to hash to #o, even though the Message-Id is o6dsrga). Since jenny can’t fetch archived twtxts, how could I go to re-fetch everything? And, most importantly, would re-fetching fix the Message-Id:?

This is how my original message shows up on jenny:

From: quark <quark>
Subject: (#o) @prologic this was your first twtxt. Cool! :-P
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2024 12:42:27 -0400
Message-Id: <k7imvia@twtxt>
X-twtxt-feed-url: https://ferengi.one/twtxt.txt

(#o) @<prologic https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt> this was your first twtxt. Cool! :-P

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com no, it is not just you. Do fetch the parent with jenny, and you will see there are two messages with different hash. Soren did something funky, for sure.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org This looks like a nice way to do it.

Another thought: if clients can’t agree on the url (for example, if we switch to this new way, but some old clients still do it the old way), that could be mitigated by computing many hashes for each twt: one for every url in the feed. So, if a feed has three URLs, every twt is associated with three hashes when it comes time to put threads together.

A client stills need to choose one url to use for the hash when composing a reply, but this might add some breathing room if there’s a period when clients are doing different things.

(From what I understand of jenny, this would be difficult to implement there since each pseudo-email can only have one msgid to match to the in-reply-to headers. I don’t know about other clients.)

The actual end-user problem is that I can’t see the thread properly when using neomutt+jenny.

@prologic@twtxt.net One of your twts begins with (#st3wsda): https://twtxt.net/twt/bot5z4q

Based on the twtxt.net web UI, it seems to be in reply to a twt by @cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org which begins “I’ve been sketching out…”.

But jenny thinks the hash of that twt is 6mdqxrq. At least, there’s a very twt in their feed with that hash that has the same text as appears on yarn.social (except with ‘ instead of ’).

Based on this, it appears jenny and yarnd disagree about the hash of the twt, or perhaps the twt was edited (though I can’t see any difference, assuming ’ vs ’ is just a rendering choice).

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Thanks, it works!

But when I tried it out on a twt from @prologic@twtxt.net, I discovered jenny and yarn.social seem to disagree about the hash of this twt: https://twtxt.net/twt/st3wsda . jenny assigned it a hash of 6mdqxrq but the URL and prologic’s reply suggest yarn.social thinks the hash is st3wsda. (And as a result, jenny –fetch-context didn’t work on prologic’s twt.)

@falsifian@www.falsifian.org have you tried jenny’s fetch-context branch? It works great!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de hmm, I am already using au BufNewFile,BufRead jenny-posting.eml setl completefunc=jenny#CompleteMentions fo-=t wrap, from jenny. How would I go to incorporate that there?

@movq@www.uninformativ.de, maybe you can help me with this. I want to place the vim cursor at the end of the first line on replies, and forks. I have tried adding to this to jenny’s configuration:

"editor": "vim \"+normal $\"",

But that doesn’t work. How would you go about it?

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I don’t know if I’d want to discard the twts. I think what I’m looking for is a command “jenny -g https://host.org/twtxt.txt” to fetch just that one feed, even if it’s not in my follow list. I could wrap that in a shell script so that when I see a twt in reply to a feed I don’t follow, I can just tap a key and the feed will get added to my maildir. I guess the script would look for a mention at the start of a selected twt and call jenny -g on the feed.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Is there a good way to get jenny to do a one-off fetch of a feed, for when you want to fill in missing parts of a thread? I just added @slashdot@feeds.twtxt.net to my private follow file just because @prologic@twtxt.net keeps responding to the feed :-P and I want to know what he’s commenting on even though I don’t want to see every new slashdot twt.

That might not be what the F in jenny with mutt means

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org
That is what I saw when I went onto twtxt.net to see. But it does not matter much as posts that I write from jenny work.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org
I hope this post works fine. I just copied the last post when I changed my feed. But this post is made with jenny.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org
Yeah I think jenny should work fine. Might have got messed up. Don’t know what messed up my file I don’t recall anything that would mess up my file.
Yep the search engine is an option but if I switch to my own server or get a rented server then I will be able to view the logs.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org
I use Jenny and I thought the multi line did work. Will keep that in mind when I am writing out posts. Also do you know how I can see if someone mentions me that I am not follwing? I know the user agents exist but I can’t view the server lgos since I host this on codeberg but if I do switch to my own server it would work.

Testing out Jenny. If this works I will setup Jenny with mutt.

@prologic@twtxt.net @xuu@txt.sour.is Don’t think I can reply to the thread in twtwt. Right now Jenny is not working for some reason. I wonder if @movq@www.uninformativ.de has any ideas. Anyway I am happy to be back and will see if I can get jenny working. Though my following list is gone now. Plus I can’t see when someone mentions me if I am not follwing them so I should work on that.

I am back on twtxt for now. I am using twtwt client. Don’t think that it does replies so I should try jenny with mutt again.

I am back on twtxt. Switched to endevour os from fedora nd setup Jenny again. Now I just have to setup autopublishing and it will be all setup.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de, well, yes, that has always been the case. Not just on jenny, but on Yarn. I can’t follow everything, and everyone. To see whether is a reply, a simple h on mutt shows the headers, and there you have it. That is not too convoluted, is it? I mean, if you really want to know–but why?–it is a simple key press. If I don’t see a context on something as obvious as the example you used, it is simply a reply to someone I don’t follow, and pretty much ignore. End of story. 😂

@prologic@twtxt.net I guess as long as jenny just links to the post.

@prologic@twtxt.net In jenny there is the option to reply to forked threads

@prologic@twtxt.net I guess anything that is open source and is not resctricted can be forked. I would assume jenny is the same but I can wait will movq replies.

@prologic@twtxt.net Yeah I do think Jenny adds most of the extensions.

@akoizumi@social.kyoko-project.wer.ee We were talking about having links on the yarn.social page for some guide on how to setup jenny + mutt

@movq@uninformativ.de Do you know how I would find people that reply to my posts or replies or even mention my users? Prologic tried to contact me and unless I found him on the yarn pod then I would not know he exists and wants to talk to me. The user agents would work but I don’t know if I can view my web server logs from codeberg pages and I don’t know how to monitor my logs for mentions. What about the way yarn does it by added people you follow to your twtxt file and having friends of friends like yarn does it be a thing for jenny. Just an idea

@prologic@twtxt.net There is also a link to the blog post on the yarn.social site about how to setup jenny with mutt.

@prologic@twtxt.net I never tried out any of the other clients except jenny with mutt. The best thing about yarn vs something like Mastodon is that its more promoted of the specification of twtxt files instead of server part. Twtxt can be hosted on some free static site host or some git server even so its really low resouces. Just a basic text file. As far as I know yarn is mostly just a web ui around twtxt and an extnetion to the specification to add some more usability and modern things. Anyone can join decentrilized network by having a twtxt file somewhere. If you want to support the specification of twtxt then that is really something most projects don’t do and they promote the server software mostly.

@prologic@twtxt.net I don’t think Jenny does much of anything with the avatar and description but I do know yarn does and its not a bad thing to include the metadata for those users.

@prologic@twtxt.net I do think the post about how to setup jenny + mutt over on the uninformativ.de blog is still a great post. I used that post to see the steps to set it up and it works fine. Though I can write some blog post with some more documentation for things like auto publishing. The big issue with plain twtxt is that I would have not seen your post unless I looked on twtxt.net when I was looking at yarn a little bit more. Twtxt does overcome the issue by introducing the registry but I can’t figure out any way to use them for Jenny and almost no one uses them in the first place. So I can’t see anyones replies or mentions unless I am following them. Yarn does overcome the issue by friends of friends as you would know as the creator of yarn.

autopublishing works with jenny + mutt I think i am done configuring mostly everything now

got jenny setup and threads works completly fine but now I want to figure out how to get auto publishing working

Right now I have to setup jenny for my timeline. Just added myself to the Registry so that part is done.

testing twtxt using jenny

Conservative leadership race turns nasty between Poilievre and Brown

Image

@benk@kwiecien.us I am using jenny (we chatted a bit on IRC earlier today). I have been using it for over five months now, I think. It is truly a joy to use, specially because you can use the power of Mutt/NeoMutt to read your twts.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de My workflow is as follows.

I hit “reply” hotkey and my editor comes up.

With or without writing something I close my editor without saving the content.

Of course I close it by C-x C-c, not by :q! ;-)

Jenny finds the temp file unchanged, e.g. it’s content is the same as it was when my editor was started. I would like that jenny discards the reply then.

Autosaving is no problem either. Real editors do this to a temporary (kind of backup) file. Only in case of a crash that file is consulted and the user is asked if she would like to continue with that stored content.

@prologic@twtxt.net

I think something has caused my feed to be in a bad state and is now unpardable😥

I can read this on jenny, but the twt isn’t making it to my own pod. Something has gone really wrong, me thinks.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Your scenario would produce observed behaviour, agreed. On the other side I’m sure I’ve set very URL in lasttwt > 1630000000.0 (manually, in my editor).

But I can’t reproduce any weird behaviour right now. I’ve tried to “blackhole” twt.nfld.uk temporarily. That does not have any effect.

I’ve also tried to force twt.nfld.uk to deliver an empty twtxt. That does not have any effect either.

So I guess everything is fine with jenny.

I have wrapped jenny into some shell script to versionize ~/.cache/jenney. This way I have better data if anything unexprected is showing again.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Today I had unexpected old twts after jenny -f. Have now jennys cache under revision control, automatically commiting changes after each fetch. Let’s see if this helps finding a (possible) bug.

@fastidious@arrakis.netbros.com

I hit RETURN after the subject, and nick […]

I shows fine on jenny. Let’s see how Yarn renders mine above.

Not to boast, but jenny has never failed me 😂. It is so neat, powerful, and streamlined, not even funny! Thank you very much, @movq@www.uninformativ.de for it! 💛

@movq@www.uninformativ.de What do you think about this?

diff –git a/jenny b/jenny
index b47c78e..20cf659 100755
— a/jenny
+++ b/jenny
@@ -278,7 +278,8 @@ def prefill_for(email, reply_to_this, self_mentions):
def process_feed(config, nick, url, content, lasttwt):

 nick_address, nick_desc = decide_nick(content, nick)
 url_for_hash = decide_url_for_hash(content, url)

• new_lasttwt = parse(‘1800-01-01T12:00:00+00:00’).timestamp()
  

• # new_lasttwt = parse(‘1800-01-01T12:00:00+00:00’).timestamp()
  

• new_lasttwt = None

  for line in twt_lines_from_content(content):

   res = twt_line_to_mail(
  

  @@ -296,7 +297,7 @@ def process_feed(config, nick, url, content, lasttwt):

   twt_stamp = twt_date.timestamp()
   if lasttwt is not None and lasttwt >= twt_stamp:
       continue
  

• if twt_stamp > new_lasttwt:

• if not new_lasttwt or twt_stamp > new_lasttwt:

       new_lasttwt = twt_stamp
  
  
   mailname_new = join(config['maildir_target'], 'new', twt_hash)
  

@movq@www.uninformativ.de
When I look in my twtxt maildir for duplicated messages they all have F in their name.

I see that in mail_file_exists jenny does not consider flagged messages when testing if a message already exists.

I understand that looking up only 12 combinations is faster than reading huge directories. I’m astonished that globbing would be slower. Learning something new every day…

@prologic@twtxt.net @movq@www.uninformativ.de
Exactly, you see correct UTF-8 encoded version (even with content-type: text/plain leaving out charset declaration).

After following utf8test twtxt myself I now see that jenny does not handle it as UTF-8 when charset is missing from HTTP header, just like @quark@ferengi.one has observed.

So should jenny treat twtxt files always as UTF-8 encoded? I’m not sure about this.